Wednesday, December 19, 2012

12-12-20 Secession - board discussion

Potentional secession blocks in the United states.

Discussion in re: Secession, following the posting at:

12-12-19 The Will to Secede: Why It's Not Just a Right-Wing Fantasy


There is a big, big , hole in Mr. Zachary's paper/analysis.

That being - sanctuary cities.  In fact, these sanctuary cities (mainly run by Democrats, LA, SF, Chicago, NY, etc., llustrative not exhaustive] followed by in many further instances sanctuary counties[LA, SF, etc., illustrative not exhaustive] and sanctuary states [California, Illinois, New York, etc., illustrative not exhaustive] - what is actually left of the United States, its Constitution and Rule of Law.  In other words, that being said, What is a country if it is not United and continues to promote diversity?

Zachary though stated that answer, where he wrote that when our motto E pluribus unam (out of many, one) has been inverted, flipped, to Ex uno pluribus (out of one, many).  Having less and less in common, actually does not bode well for the future.  Especially where we are broke beyond comprehension, yet make more and more promises of free bees. 

 Finally, the word community has the word unity in it.  It does not have diversity in it, nor does it have the word multicultural in it.  There is strength in unity, not in the foolish claim that there is strength in diversity.  A family, a community, a country to succeed and prosper must have shared values and purpose and unity.  After all we are the United State of America, the Diversified States of America.  We may become the Diversified States of America, but if that happens it will not last long and will bring on anarchy/revolution, because it has no Constitution, Rule of Law or true basis - it just more Hope & Change.  G


I did not post this paper because I agree with all its arguments.  I posted it to show that the idea of secession, which was almost unheard of a few years ago, is now common parlance among both conservatives and progressives.  It also appears to be gaining momentum.

That said, your arguments about constitution, rule of law, etc, are the exact reasons that I believe that secession is one of the most reasonable solutions for the current situation.  

The US Constitution is effectively dead. The Bill of Rights is effectively dead.  Our government is controlled by banking/corporate interests. That is agreed by now by both conservative and progressives. 

And the US Constitution in the first place never meant that a desire to secede by any of the several states would be a cause for a civil war against such state by the federal government.

Under such circumstances, the question is: What effective, non-violent, timely corrective measures are available?

Secession, or restoration of the right to secede are some of the most reasonable options.  It is sufficient that the right to secede is restored and a state, or group of states are seen as ready, willing able to secede for  the federal government to dramatically change its conduct.  (I believe that it would have to be a state or group of states with access to a sea port and a border with Canada or Mexico).

Examples of the desirable effect of the right to secede include Canada, where the threat of secession of Quebec will likely save the people of Canada from abuse by the banksters and large corporations of the type now seen in the United States.  The same is true for UK (in re Scotland).

Additionally, matters of representation and government accountability tend to work more efficiently in a smaller nation:  

* Iceland - so far the only nation, which managed to stand up to the banksters, has a total population of 320,000!  Iceland prosecuted its top politicians and banksters!

* In Israel, with a population of 7 millions, I am able to meet members of the legislature (Knesset) with little difficulty.  I was also recently asked by a representative of a social protest organization to start attending on a regular basis specific committee meetings of the legislature (Constitution and the Judiciary, Government Oversight).  The organization has created "The People's Knesset Guard".  The idea is to generate as large attendance as possible by the people in specific committees.  In such committees, representatives of the organization are even permitted to speak!  In Israel, a former president is in jail, former health minister, former minister of interior have recently finished serving time.  Foreign minister has just resigned the other day, since he is facing prosecution. The other day the news was that top  bankster is facing prosecution (we are yet to see how these two cases would be litigated...).  

* When was the last time that a US cabinet member was prosecuted, let alone jailed??? When was the last time that a top banking/corporate criminal was prosecuted, let alone jailed??? 

* Even the conduct of litigation in a small nation is different.  The former president (it all happened before I got here) almost escaped prosecution on sex crimes and the resulting prison sentence through a plea bargain and other manipulations.  Women went out to the streets, and  demanded review of the case in open court, no back room deals. The plea bargain was nixed, and the pres ended up in prison. (now he is asking for a pardon, since the other prisoners are not treating him nicely...)

* I simply cannot imagine in Iceland, Israel, or any civilized nation of similar size (Holland, Belgium, etc) the absurd situation we now face in the US, where a sitting president is clearly a fraud, on the basics of BC and SS #.  When I explain to people in Israel the socio-economic situation in the US today (the press here hardly reports it) they a) do not believe it, or b) say Americans are wusses...  

* In a nation, the size of the US, correction of current conditions may easily take 50-100 years, or more... and conditions are likely to get much worse before they ever get better.  In a smaller nation, correction is likely to be much faster and more effective.

Bottom line: 
If you like to live in a nation that is large, united, but fails to observe its own constitution and where the rule of law is a fiction, stay with the current setup. If you want a decent chance of restoration of civil society and the rule of law , secession, or even restoring the right to secede are some of the most effective, non-violent, timely ways to go.


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